Friday, June 23, 2017

Gemini Exchange: Part 1


As recommended by a reader, I went to read up about the Gemini Exchange.

It looked pretty good, and it's actually has very decent volumes. The three nicest things about them is that:

1) They explicitly accept Singapore customers (source)
2) They have zero transfer-in fees (source)
3) They have no deposit or withdrawal limits (source)

So far, so good, yeah?

I registered an account with them, was greeted with a nice clean UX and proceeded to do the verification process. 

I was expecting the verification process to take a few weeks, but I was pleasantly surprised that within a week I was notified that my account has been verified and that I'm good to go.

In preparation for possibly using US exchanges to buy digital currencies, I have opened by a DBS eMCA account (which took less than 6 hours to be approved!). However, I have since realized that I could also send USD directly from SGD just as easily and cheaply without an eMCA account. I suppose the main difference is that I get an extra step in between the transfer, which means that I don't have to immediately convert at spot rate, but I could "time" my SGD-USD conversions and possibly save a bit extra. A bit.

Anyway, today I remitted a small sum of money to test out the DBS remit function and also to test and see if the US exchange will be able to receive the USD without any problems.

Step 1: In Gemini, create an inward Wire Transfer transaction
Step 2: In DBS, remit money to the details shown in Gemini, not forgetting to put the memo
Step 3: Wait

The DBS rate compared to the mid market spot rate on XE was 0.67%. If everything is what I think it is, there should be no fees anywhere else, in which case 0.67% is very acceptable.

DBS claims same-day transfer if the transfer is made before 5.30pm (when I called up their hotline), while Gemini says same day or next day crediting if funds are received before 3pm ET, which is roughly 3am SG time.

Based on my hypothesis, since I have completed the transaction on DBS before 5.30pm, I am hopeful to be credited the amount in my Gemini account from 10pm onwards (slightly after the start of regular working hours) until 5am. In the worse case, it ought to be credited by the end of the next business day on their side, which is unfortunately Tuesday early morning, 5am. 

When the money gets credited, I'll execute trades and also withdraw the cryptocurrency. I'll post about that when it happens.

31 comments:

  1. Hi GMGH,

    Any new updates on trading using gemini? I am very curious about it since I read your post about how coinhako has such lousy exchange rates.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hey Anon,

      Thanks for following up. I never did update on this, did I?

      I've made more than 10 transfers from DBS to Gemini and I've had no problems so far.

      As long as you send it out before 5pm on a working day in SG, it will be sent out. As long as it is a working day in the US, the account credit will usually be reflected between 1-3am in the early morning.

      DBS conversion + remit fees = ~0.65%
      Gemini deposit fee = $0
      Gemini exchange fee = 0.25%

      So all-in, it would cost you about 0.9% in total to convert SGD into BTC or ETH through Gemini.

      Hako charges a 0.7-0.9% exchange fee, but their exchange rate can be really stupid sometimes.

      I strongly recommend Gemini over Hako if you're going to do any significant amount.


      Delete
  2. Hello, nice post! :) How will you get the money from Gemini to your bank account once you sell your cyrptocurrency? Thanks!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi apaquino,

      You can sell your crypto at any exchange that you please. If you sell it at Gemini, you will get back USD which you can wire transfer back to your account in Singapore.

      Once it is in your bank account (hopefully it is a multi currency account), you can decide to keep it as USD or to convert it to SGD with the applicable conversion fees.

      Delete
    2. Hi there, this is useful. thanks so much! Can you let me know whats the exchange rate / fees to withdraw from Gemini to DBS?

      Delete
  3. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  4. Thanks for the tips, really helpful. Set up my Gemini Account. I have a question about the transfer though.

    It's quite confusing because our local bank (OCBC) asks for the 'Beneficiary Banks' SWIFT code but it seems like Gemini only provides the Intermediary bank one. Do you know about the workaround for this?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Kelvin, belated reply, but I am only familiar with remitting from DBS.

      Delete
    2. Hey Kelvin,
      Did you manage to resolve this issue?
      I'm running into the same problem with OCBC

      Delete
  5. Hi GMGH,

    Would you be able to share with us the detailed steps involving in transferring USD into Gemini from DBS eMCA?

    I have performed a OTT using my USD balance in DBS eMCA to Gemini, which has been confirmed by DBS and money transmitted out. However, the balance in not reflected in my Gemini account and the bank linkage still reflects as pending even after a couple of days.

    I would appreciate if you could share the exact process, such as what to key in for each field at the DBS eMCA page, so that I can compare and find out where have I done wrong. Thanks a lot in advanced!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Anon,

      I think this will answer your question.

      https://pennywise.sg/deposit-sgd-gemini/

      Delete
  6. Hi GMGH,

    May I ask how the rates on gemini compare with Coinbase? The main disadvantage of coinbase is the trading limit but for now I don't have that much money to trade with anyways... So looking to compare the rates.

    Thanks!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Anon,

      Coinbase is 2% for xfers and 4% for credit card if I'm not wrong.

      If you already have USD, it costs only 0.25% to execute on Gemini.
      Remitting with base SGD to them via DBS costs about 0.65%.

      Delete
  7. Hi GMGH,

    Would like to check did you recently encounter any issues with dbs remit to Gemini? Because my recent funds transfer to Gemini doesn't seems to work. My last transfer was done on 8th Nov 8.30pm but still not reflected on my gemini account to date as I posted this. Gemini status still shows as "pending". Kindly advise on this. Thank you.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Eric,

      From what I understand a lot of people are having issues because they put in the clearing code ABA when it is actually no necessary at all.

      I have recently made deposits into Gemini and was credited as usual.

      My only advice would be to check in with them again and try to help them locate and tag your deposit so it can be credited properly. Also check on your sending details again, I think Pennywise has a good guide.

      Delete
    2. I see. Yes, I have initially started off using the pennywise guide and most of my transfer did went through.

      However, it was only recently my transfer starting to get rejected and I then tried sending funds by using another ABA codes starting with 3* provided by them instead of the code starting with 1*.

      May be I will try one without the ABA clearing code. Thanks alot for your prompt response.

      Delete
  8. Hi guys - I'm having a similar issue and have made 2 successful transfers recently so, all things being equal, the third is still 'pending'. Didn't use the ABA code as it's unnecessary (as you correctly pointed out) and transferred the correct amount with the correct 6 char alphanumeric reference. It's been 2 days now and it normally takes no more than a day if you're ahead of the cut-off time.

    Wondering if it has something to do with all the activity over the weekend. Any thoughts?

    Thanks

    Sy

    ReplyDelete
  9. Hi, i am trying to setup the Gemini withdraw account. Can advise Under Bank account number or iban do i input my dbs account number? the swift number is DBSSSGSG?

    thank you

    ReplyDelete
  10. Same issue .
    Look at the instructions. Same right? Bottom one working.

    ========deposit failed, returned back to DBS after 4working days========

    Memo/reference: YQYQYD
    BIC / SWIFT code: PCBBUS66

    Intermediary:

    Pacific Coast Bankers’ Bank
    Walnut Creek, CA 94596
    ABA routing number: 121042484

    Receiving bank:

    Silvergate Bank
    ATTN: Treasury Department
    ABA routing number: 322286803

    4275 Executive Square, Suite 300
    La Jolla, CA 92037
    United States Of America

    Destination account information:

    Gemini Trust Company LLC
    Account number: 1000808012

    600 Third Avenue, 2nd Fl
    New York, NY 10016
    United States Of America

    =======deposit received to my account within 12hrs======
    Memo/reference: MQPKZE
    BIC / SWIFT code: PCBBUS66

    Intermediary:

    Pacific Coast Bankers’ Bank
    Walnut Creek, CA 94596
    ABA routing number: 121042484

    Receiving bank:

    Silvergate Bank
    ATTN: Treasury Department
    ABA routing number: 322286803

    4275 Executive Square, Suite 300
    La Jolla, CA 92037
    United States Of America

    Destination account information:

    Gemini Trust Company LLC
    Account number: 1000808012

    600 Third Avenue, 2nd Fl
    New York, NY 10016
    United States Of America

    ReplyDelete
  11. I think this is key too. But not sure how it will handled?

    " If you initiate anything other than a same-day wire transfer, it will be rejected on our end."

    If DBS send will the date clash = Initiated a day before because of time difference!!?

    ReplyDelete
  12. Yup, they look the same to me. So I thought about the time difference too then checked my transactions, one of which was definitely on another day technically but, however, it cleared. Bear in mind we're looking at 2 timezones in the US: PST and EST. Personally, I think the process is random and it depends on who/what you get on the day. Maybe in your ref put both the ABA # (322286803) AND 6 char Gemini ref?!

    ReplyDelete
  13. Hi GMGH, do you know whether Gemini verification of passport is safe? I heard the verification process is long too, do you think it is a good idea to reveal passport details to them?

    ReplyDelete
  14. Hi all,

    1) Gemini is legit AF.
    2) All your banks, telcos and your company HR has your personal details anyway. If you are not doing anything illegal, there is nothing to hide
    3) I have tried and tested it out - USE CLEARING CODE STARTING WITH 3
    4) ALWAYS PUT REFERENCE NUMBER
    5) I have sent 1 day later after generating the Gemini deposit order and it was still credited fine

    Good luck peeps, I don't know how else I can help.

    ReplyDelete
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  16. Nope, I sent 3K, triple checked everything, after a week funds still not shown in my account. No response from support whatsoever, phone number is useless and just directs you back to FAQ and email. AVOID.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Nicky,

      With the updated Gemini instructions, I was credited within 12 hours.
      I have done it twice already.

      Up to you to decide which exchange you want to use, I still recommend Gemini, they have processed my deposits dozens of times, with there being only an issue once. It was bounced and credited back to my local bank a week later.

      Delete
    2. What time do you usually perform the transfer in Singapore Time ?

      Delete
  17. If I transfer by using DBS to Gemini on sat - sun, will my account receive $ within weekend ?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Nope. Probably Monday late night / Tuesday early am

      Delete
  18. compared to coinhako/xfers, are the fees higher here?
    i realised if you are withdrawing huge amounts, then the fees are worth it.. smaller amounts can get rekt.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Hi GMGH, have you tried remitting USD in Gemini back to your DBS eMCA account so far?
    Just want to confirm that it works the other way round too.
    Trying to decide between getting a traditional USD account or the DBS eMCA account.
    Thank you.



    ReplyDelete

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